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Author Topic: Custom/private blockchains may become popular soon  (Read 4351 times)

NxtChg

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Re: Custom/private blockchains may become popular soon
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2015, 04:56:50 pm »
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That's not very interesting. It would be nice to see some tangible technical info or a white paper, which would describe what they actually want blockchain for.

Also interesting why they won't go with Ripple, it would be perfect for them. Probably because it's not a new global buzzword :)
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gs02xzz

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Re: Custom/private blockchains may become popular soon
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2015, 01:34:27 am »
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I want to see more info about their tech too. Maybe they are not open source projects at this moment.

Digital Asset Holdings should have a live blockchain running becasue they recently issued an digital asset for Pivit - http://digitalasset.com/static/documents/PRESS_RELEASE_Pivit_Digital_Asset.pdf

I think the reason why they don't use Ripple is exactly same as why they pursue their own chains. They can not control Ripple while they want something they can feel that they will not lose the control. On top of that, the technology of the public chains are still not battle tested and convincing enough yet for the real world corporations.

Maybe the permissioned chain is a bridge between the centralization and the more decentralization at this early stage of crypto technology for the sake of both psychology and technology.

gs02xzz

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Re: Custom/private blockchains may become popular soon
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2015, 10:03:15 pm »
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There is some very good information in this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLWhU3f0xlc&feature=youtu.be&t=5m27s

Hopefully in the future, the new cryptos will have more options to be used in business world and more business models to apply for. So far the Bitcoin business model seems the only business model for the new coins to follow.

NxtChg

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Re: Custom/private blockchains may become popular soon
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2015, 12:20:41 am »
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Thanks! That's a very useful video, I am starting to understand them.

Here's what happened: when banks saw how incredibly alive permissionless ecosystem is, compared to the old, traditional banking tech, (where they are still sending text files over FTP, for god's sake!), they immediately got excited by all the new ideas.

It's pretty clear that a new economic "world order" will grow out of Bitcoin, and many people in the old finance space are excited to help build this. Many of them enlightened enough to do it for the idea, not greed.

But they don't yet know what this new economic order will be, and they don't have proper vocabulary to describe things, so they just label everything related to it by the word "blockchain". It's not a technical term for them, it's a placeholder word to describe this new economic order.

Now all this talk about "private blockchains" makes much more sense - they just don't know how to name what they are excited about :)

And the noise will continue while we are figuring out the future.
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NxtChg

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Re: Custom/private blockchains may become popular soon
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2015, 12:32:28 am »
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Also interesting to note that one of the main concerns of those people - can the technology handle real-world transaction volume.
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gs02xzz

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Re: Custom/private blockchains may become popular soon
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2015, 05:08:17 pm »
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It is good to see people from the industry to talk about the blockchain technology because they have money, resources, business expertise, and motivation to build successful business. To make it successful and profitable, the crypto and industry need to get married at some point in the future when both sides can more clearly see the same picture.

Another frequent word mentioned by the panelists is use-case. What they want is to find use cases and build valid business models on top of them. They want to generate revenue streams and eventually the profit through their business models. That is the ultimate motivation for most of the people to take on an enterprise.

In the cryptocoins world, the devs and users don't think about business models a lot because they don't have the expertise and they don't have the resources either. The overall mode for cryptos is to launch a coin (a technology) and wait for the magic to happen as the magic happened to Bitocoin. But Bitcoin is gold and the world can only have one gold, maybe a silver at the most.

For everyone else, they have to find their own use cases and their own business models and motivated business persons and entrepreneurs to carry on the enterprise and generate revenue streams and eventually the profit for the founders, investors and participants. A valid business plan is as important as a cutting edge technology, to success.

NxtChg

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Re: Custom/private blockchains may become popular soon
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2015, 11:18:22 am »
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In the cryptocoins world, the devs and users don't think about business models a lot because they don't have the expertise and they don't have the resources either. The overall mode for cryptos is to launch a coin (a technology) and wait for the magic to happen as the magic happened to Bitocoin. But Bitcoin is gold and the world can only have one gold, maybe a silver at the most.

I disagree. If you look at Bitcoin ecosystem, a lot of various "uses-cases" were adopted and used as a base for new businesses.

What the old-industry folks want, is to figure out a way to switch _their_ particular use-cases to this new technology, and of course it's gonna be difficult! They already have efficient mechanisms that do current job pretty well.

It's like film manufacturers trying to figure out how they can update their factories full of tubes and chemicals to adapt to digital photography.

Plus, we haven't even mastered the very basic use-case of money. We are trying to build exciting and complicated smart contracts on top of blockchains, yet people can't use Bitcoin in their everyday life!

That is one mighty use-case, which alone can pretty much transform the world.
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gs02xzz

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Re: Custom/private blockchains may become popular soon
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2015, 03:57:48 pm »
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Everything you said about Bitcoin is true. Bitcoin is the gold of cryptos. But the problem is that the bitcoin business model is hardly replicable. The development of most of the altcoins have proved it. Indeed, payment is the biggest use case for crypto coin. But first and foremost, it is Bitcoin's use case.

Another proof is Etheruem. Ethereum is taking a different approach. They try to reach out the industry and bring in the industry to work with them. Some of their Dapps (like Slock) are trying to assist the existing business and companies to be more efficient and expand the marketplace.

There are other new business models are forming by the new players, like R3's consortium.

In general, the industry and established companies always welcome and try to embrace the new technology because they are always to look for ways to be more competitive. As some one have mentioned, the industry (e.g. the banking industry) understands more about the crypto tech than the cypto world understands about the industry.

Companies don't move as fast as you expect because they have responsibility to the shareholders, customers, and employees. They can't fail. But they will adopt anything which can improve their efficiency. The proof is that they adopted internet. it is the competition and opportunity to make profit in the market, but the ideology, to drive them to adopt new tech. They will take a more pragmatic approach.

For the new coins which is still under development like Simcoin, time actually is on their side. If you launch a coin today, it will only be another altcoin and make the coin list on the coinmarketcap.com a little bit longer. That's it. Time may tell there is a more valid business model for a coin like Simcoin.


Edit - maybe it is not a bad idea for you to finish the CryptoPlay project B before you launch Simcoin. ;) Just kidding.

NxtChg

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Re: Custom/private blockchains may become popular soon
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2015, 04:25:32 pm »
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For the new coins which is still under development like Simcoin, time actually is on their side. If you launch a coin today, it will only be another altcoin and make the coin list on the coinmarketcap.com a little bit longer. That's it. Time may tell there is a more valid business model for a coin like Simcoin.

Edit - maybe it is not a bad idea for you to finish the CryptoPlay project B before you launch Simcoin. ;) Just kidding.

Oh, don't worry, Simcoin still has a long road to go. I have no illusions about timing - the time for it is not now. And there's a huge amount of work still needed.

But it cannot morph into something like Ethereum to cater specifically to the old finance - its main goal from the beginning was (and still is) to just be the most efficient decentralized system for making transactions. And that is needed, because no such system exists and nobody seems to be working on it.

If some features can be added at almost no cost, like assets, I'm all for it and would like to hear suggestions, but other than that - it will remain the "simplicity-security-speed" coin.

What the old finance might appreciate, though, is Simcoin's capacity - they worry about limitations of Bitcoin.

Simcoin can also be a perfect "private blockchain", if somebody needs such a system for whatever reasons, because its design is much more suitable for that particular task and is based around a core of powerful nodes. In a controlled environment it will be even faster and more stable.
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NxtChg

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Re: Custom/private blockchains may become popular soon
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2015, 09:16:32 pm »
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By the way, another interesting thing from that video is that I thought the reduction in trust from using private blockchains wouldn't matter, but it turns out they expect significant reduction in paperwork, and thus - improved efficiency.
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Re: Custom/private blockchains may become popular soon
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2015, 01:01:29 am »
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But it cannot morph into something like Ethereum to cater specifically to the old finance - its main goal from the beginning was (and still is) to just be the most efficient decentralized system for making transactions. And that is needed, because no such system exists and nobody seems to be working on it.

If some features can be added at almost no cost, like assets, I'm all for it and would like to hear suggestions, but other than that - it will remain the "simplicity-security-speed" coin.

What the old finance might appreciate, though, is Simcoin's capacity - they worry about limitations of Bitcoin.

Simcoin can also be a perfect "private blockchain", if somebody needs such a system for whatever reasons, because its design is much more suitable for that particular task and is based around a core of powerful nodes. In a controlled environment it will be even faster and more stable.

Definitely, this sounds right to me.

Btw, it seems that the 51% attack is still the public blockchain's Achilles' heel by far. Will you tackle this issue in Simcoin to mitigate it some how?

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Re: Custom/private blockchains may become popular soon
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2015, 01:51:36 am »
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Btw, it seems that the 51% attack is still the public blockchain's Achilles' heel by far. Will you tackle this issue in Simcoin to mitigate it some how?

I wouldn't call it Achilles' heel :) If 51% of all hash power is against you, that's a catastrophic failure.

Also PoS works differently. In consensus algorithms the threshold is usually accepted as 3f+1, i.e. you need at least 2/3 of the nodes to be honest.

So if you are able to buy 33% of effective stake, you will be able to disrupt the system (but you will gain nothing else, and it will be easily detectable).

If you own 66% of effective stake, you will be able to dictate consensus, i.e. double-spend or block transactions, but that would be a very costly attack for the privilege of double-spending a few txs. The attack will also be limited to a 4-hour window, so for really big txs users can just wait a few hours to be absolutely sure.
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NxtChg

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Re: Custom/private blockchains may become popular soon
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2016, 04:45:48 pm »
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Interesting video about IBM's private blockchain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0LsnzAe1Yg

but it leaves more questions than answers...

First of all, are they trying to make a global universal document management system on top of a blockchain?!! Good luck with that, seems like they don't fully realize what they're up against.

That's why you can see that in further steps they just attach document scans, but this makes it very hard to verify automatically. It's also not clear how all the participants can verify all the steps. How the hell can Bank of Berlin tell if a container has been loaded on the ship in Malaysia?

Also not clear how the resources are distributed. Is anyone joining the system will have to store all the huge scans from all the different companies in the world on their disks and waste bandwidth?

How all the different participants will verify their identity, not to mention preserve their privacy?

If this is "one business = one blockchain", then that's incredibly retarded and inefficient.

Otherwise, it's such a huge bag of problems that it might never be completely solved.
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