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gs02xzz

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Re: A Strategy for Success
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2016, 12:20:57 am »
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This FinTech Innovation Challenge by Sony 2016 (https://matchi.biz/challenge-by-sony-en.html) may be a good opportunity for Sim to get some business and market exposure. They only needs POC for now and they will help the winner's product to get adopted by real business world. The deadline for application is Wednesday the 17th of February 2016.

Sim can fit well with the 'Entertainment X Blockchain' category like some killer apps mentioned in the OP -

* Online tipping.
* Video on demand/torrent monetization (but I don't want Simcoin to be labeled as "a coin for pirates" and be hunted, so need to be careful here)
* Content selling in general: songs, e-books, articles, art, soft, phone apps, etc.
* New kind of forum with integrated tipping and stake estimation to rank users.
* Reddit with integrated payments, so content submitters are rewarded.
* Crowd-compute with proper market and rewards.
* Crowd-storage (crowd-cloud).
* Wi-Fi/mesh networks monetization.
* Crowd-managing and crowd-funding projects. Freelancing.
* Games, especially existing popular ones, which are somehow integrated with cryptos (i.e. Minecraft).
* Online voting, including reliable merchant feedback, movie ratings, etc. (both on-chain and off-chain, but with proof)
* New web-site login system via signed messages with direct account (i.e. stake) integration.
* Pay-to-watch-ads, pay-to-read systems (pay-to-read is already easily implementable via native Simcoin messages).
* Local governance with both voting and financing  (need a way to limit votes for this, probably via asset voting).

NxtChg

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Re: A Strategy for Success
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2016, 01:00:46 pm »
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This FinTech Innovation Challenge by Sony 2016 (https://matchi.biz/challenge-by-sony-en.html) may be a good opportunity for Sim to get some business and market exposure. They only needs POC for now and they will help the winner's product to get adopted by real business world. The deadline for application is Wednesday the 17th of February 2016.

a) That's just 7 days.

b) I don't like the idea of sucking up to some big corporation. That's not what sim is about. I'll make it, if it's any good, they will suck up to us.
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NxtChg

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Re: A Strategy for Success
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2016, 04:51:56 pm »
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One idea for a killer app is an encrypted chat program done right. I don't know any good encrypted IM clients for Windows.

The benefit here is that it can use a lot of code from Simcoin - UDP protocol, sqlite db, fast encryption and signatures, etc. Designed with the overall spirit of "simplicity, security, speed".

The protocol will be open, so anyone can write a client for any platform. In the process they will have to port all the core code to that platform, which helps Simcoin development a bit.

And messaging is only getting more and more popular - look at Telegram for example: 350,000 new users / 15 billion messages per day!
Even a small share of that can be a significant boost for Simcoin.

The problem is how exactly make it useful for Simcoin adoption :)

I know that IM payments are the latest craze, but it's putting the cart before the horse - until there's an easy way to deposit/withdraw or to earn/spend it, such payments are useless.

Any ideas?
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wizzardTim

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Re: A Strategy for Success
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2016, 10:20:10 pm »
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Some ideas:

Maybe some private chat channels require subscription fee in SIMcoins.

How about a support channel where professionals answer questions in real time and get paid in SIM (eg. questions and experts from any field, eg medical to technical like stackoverflow - in real time)

Maybe voip call support/video calls with minimum fees.

Integration of the chat into web apps and games - for community creation and adoption

NxtChg

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Re: A Strategy for Success
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2016, 11:06:44 pm »
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Nah, that's not enough... The idea of a killer app is to make something popular that requires every user to use SIM, otherwise it's a niche app, not a killer.

Probably can't do it for messaging. Too bad.

What would be great is to make two popular projects: one game with real, SIM-based economy, and another - some useful app with high demand (but legal).

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draco

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Re: A Strategy for Success
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2016, 12:17:26 pm »
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I think some retail Forex traders could move to a trustless crypto platform where they wouldn't need to send their money to a broker's account, or perhaps trade anonymously. It is a $250 billion/day market
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retail_foreign_exchange_trading

Having a system for trustless trading would cause a huge amount of overhead, so I don't know if it is practical. Each time the price changes (many times a minute) new transactions would at least need to be signed. Perhaps something like Bitcoin's payment channels would be appropriate, where each time the price changes new transactions would be signed but not broadcast. Do you have something equivalent to payments channels? If you have account control, I think something similar could be constructed, but in a simpler fashion. For example if there is an account control rule that A can only send to B, that in effect creates a payment channel from A to B.

NxtChg

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Re: A Strategy for Success
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2016, 12:34:08 pm »
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Payment channels are tricky because transactions are time-bound. In Bitcoin a transaction can in theory exist indefinitely in mempools until it is eventually confirmed.

Simcoin can't afford this, so all txs are limited to a +-10 sec window: after that you will get either a confirmation or timeout. This can be alleviated by signing several txs, but still is not very reliable.

I thought about how to construct micropayment channels, but not much. It's probably better to reverse this and instead of re-signing txs allow account control to accept some sort of a claim. Need to think more.
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draco

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Re: A Strategy for Success
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2016, 12:59:14 pm »
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Payment channels are tricky because transactions are time-bound. In Bitcoin a transaction can in theory exist indefinitely in mempools until it is eventually confirmed.

In general, Bitcoin's payment channels seem like a good idea to me, but the implementation is overly complex. For example it seems to me that Bitcoin should have prevented transactions from existing indefinitely by having both valid-after and valid-before timestamps in the transactions. This would also create a simpler "versioning" system for competing transactions in a payment channel.

NxtChg

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Re: A Strategy for Success
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2016, 04:10:08 pm »
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In general, Bitcoin's payment channels seem like a good idea to me, but the implementation is overly complex.

My thoughts exactly. They are also a lot less practical than it looks: you need to lock an unknown amount of money for significant time, then both parties need to remember to take action before it expires.

It's way easier to have a monthly subscription with a fixed price. You don't have to worry that Netflix would steal your money.

And things get even more complicated in case of multiple parties, like your forex example: you can't really setup channels between all traders.

That's why it's in my "nice to have" section with low priority :)
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draco

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Re: A Strategy for Success
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2016, 06:43:03 pm »
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And things get even more complicated in case of multiple parties, like your forex example: you can't really setup channels between all traders.

The traders would establish a channel with a broker (exchange), not between themselves.

High-frequency trading is one example where it could work. Using a channel would add overhead, but maybe not too much, because there is significant value at stake. There could be other examples where significant value is at stake, so setting up channels is not too big of a cost, and transactions are too frequent to have all of them added to the blockchain. Bitcoin (margin) traders wouldn't have to store coins on an exchange where they can get stolen.

The usual example given for a payment channel, such as paying for Wifi, doesn't really work because the amounts are too small.

Bitcoiners seem to want normal payment transactions to go through channels (or lightning network) so that they are fast, but that doesn't apply to Simcoin because payments are fast even without a channel.

NxtChg

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Re: A Strategy for Success
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2016, 07:26:10 pm »
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The traders would establish a channel with a broker (exchange), not between themselves.

Hm, how would this work? The channel then needs to be bi-directional and only works for high-frequency trading.

Setting 2 channels in opposite directions is even more complicated, although indeed for large volume this might be worth it.

You also still need to trust your broker to hold whatever it is you're buying.

By the way, I recently had an idea for a cryptoexchange where only bots can trade, but after some consideration decided it probably won't work.

Even if humans are also allowed to trade, you need a lot of liquidity and many bot coders to make it popular and efficient. The biggest appeal would probably be easier arbitrage between various crypto's. Plus speed and simplicity of coding.

What do you think?

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draco

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Re: A Strategy for Success
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2016, 09:12:37 pm »
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You also still need to trust your broker to hold whatever it is you're buying.

Not at all. Only the wins/losses are paid by using the channel, in real time.

I assume that Simcoin transactions have fees and/or there are limits on how many transactions can be sent to the network. If not, the channel is not needed.

Theoretically it could work like this. I'm sure it would be more difficult in practice. A is a user and B is the broker (or one of his accounts).

- Account control rule: A can only send to B and B can only send to A. Undoing these "modes" works with a delay, so that any pending transactions can be broadcast.
- Every 10 seconds, the party that is losing signs a payment transaction and sends it to the other party (but doesn't broadcast). It is only valid for the next 10 seconds (or about).
- When A closes his position, then the last transaction is broadcast (it's also the only valid transaction, the others have expired).

Quote
By the way, I recently had an idea for a cryptoexchange where only bots can trade, but after some consideration decided it probably won't work.

I don't know really. What would be the motive for the bot creators? Try to "compete" with other bots? Normally bot coders have "real" historical data from the market they are trading to develop the bot, and an expectation that their bot makes money if it works with historical price data. Somehow it seems different if only bots can trade.

NxtChg

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Re: A Strategy for Success
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2016, 09:33:40 pm »
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- When A closes his position, then the last transaction is broadcast (it's also the only valid transaction, the others have expired).

Here's the problem: if the last tx fails for whatever reason (network ddos, your own temporary connection jam), you're screwed. In Bitcoin txs can stay for a long time, but not in Sim.

I don't know really. What would be the motive for the bot creators? Try to "compete" with other bots? Normally bot coders have "real" historical data from the market they are trading to develop the bot, and an expectation that their bot makes money if it works with historical price data. Somehow it seems different if only bots can trade.

Yeah, pretty much the same thoughts...
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draco

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Re: A Strategy for Success
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2016, 10:37:21 pm »
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- When A closes his position, then the last transaction is broadcast (it's also the only valid transaction, the others have expired).

Here's the problem: if the last tx fails for whatever reason (network ddos, your own temporary connection jam), you're screwed. In Bitcoin txs can stay for a long time, but not in Sim.

Actually it would be best if the transactions had version numbers, and a new transaction could always be signed immediately after the price changes. I don't know if there is a way to make sure that only the transaction with the highest version number gets included in the blockchain.

NxtChg

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Re: A Strategy for Success
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2016, 10:44:17 pm »
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Actually it would be best if the transactions had version numbers, and a new transaction could always be signed immediately after the price changes. I don't know if there is a way to make sure that only the transaction with the highest version number gets included in the blockchain.

Not sure what you are describing here, but it doesn't seem to solve the problem of last tx.

If it fails, it expires. All previous expired too. So you're out of luck getting your funds.

And if tx is big, your counter-party has an incentive to DDoS you and/or sim nodes for 10 sec, and it's impossible to prove malice here.
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